and while the responsible state still exists, Theres a fundamental weakness with all theories of universal law or justice, which is that across time and space, the human conception of what is right and just seems to be extremely varied and rarely (to modern Western eyes) pleasant.. if he wants to be an historian he should present a fair and realistic picture of what happened, Your email address will not be published. I agree BIS. Over 150 years in America. As for the future, the University of Manchester professor says younger generations give him hope. From Roots. Maybe Europeans did increase demand. It may have made sense for the SS to starve labourers to death. It was an apt university to experiment with such developments, since Lord Scarman, who reported on the Brixton riots of 1981, was its chancellor. But Ill tell you what, slavery and human sacrifice, still awful. "So when black history was missing - the history of empire, the history of slavery - was missing from my history lessons, I didn't have a place to go to discover those missing chapters. Needless to say they should pay us reparations for this too. Different people can argue the toss from different viewpoints and perspectives but in many ways their arguments pass each other like ships in the night, because they havent all got nobodys got an absolute frame of reference to judge things with respect to. Tim says there might be some truth to them for the Caribbean. We do not know for sure. So he calls himself a Geordie. In the late 1800's and early 1900's, 30,000 Jewish migrants from Russia and Eastern Europe settled in Manchester. Joining them is Psychologist and Lecturer at Lancaster University, Dr David Tod, for a fascinating conversation about the psychology of acting. . After all, adult males were all but worthless and demand for women might have been enough to drive the trade anyway. Its a replay of the ecology nutters & the trannies. Once insignificant villages, great cities such as Liverpool, Bristol and Glasgow sprang up on the profits of slavery. I cant see the point of denying it was all pretty awful. You can be redeemed, you worthless pasty people. Although the bottom line is that no Black person remembers slavery. Prof David Olusoga has presented numerous documentaries including A House Through Time and Black and Black and British: A Forgotten History, Olaudah Equiano played a role in Britain's abolishment of slavery, Performer Giles Terera has written a play featuring Equiano, Prof Olusoga said when it was published, people did not believe the book was by an African as it was deemed so well written, Bernardine Evaristo (second left) has launched a series called Black Britain: Writing Back which features novels by black British authors that have been overlooked, Should black history be taught all year round? In 1986 I came across the book Staying Power by the British journalist Peter Fryer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr_Gide, Less flippantly, Western countries are not of one mind when it comes to the age of consent sex with a 14 year-old is legal in some countries, criminal in others (yes yes, paedophilia versus ephebophilia etc, you got me). Even discussing it gives your opponents arguments merit. And yes, grand scheme of things, forced choice between living in a central Asian city about to be captured by ticked-off Mongols and an African tribal group about to be captured by profit-hungry slavers then fine, I take the latter hands down. It may not. And they will go looking for parts of the past that aren't on the curriculum, and they evidently do. Equiano is also mentioned in Incomparable World, a novel by SI Martin, which was selected by Booker award-winning author Bernardine Evaristo for her Black Britain: Writing Back series. David will . Anybody can do this. It built slave forts on the African coast, some such as Bunce Island in Sierra Leone furnished with a rape house. The German survivors of Stalingrad were sent to camps and most of them worked to death. Giles Terera, the Olivier award-winning British performer who starred in the popular theatre production Hamilton, has . His autobiography, The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano, details how he was sold into slavery aged 11, his experience of travelling the world as slave to a Royal Navy officer - who renamed him Gustavus Vassa - and how he bought his freedom from his final master, an English merchant in Montserrat. Get back to me in seven years, when youre ready to order. Not many remember anything about segregation either. Should black history be taught all year round? Fair point. But its still awful, even on a historical scale. If slavery really mattered theyd be campaigning for reparations from the blacks and arabs/moslems who were doing it long before the white man arrived in Africa and was far more devastating. Yet American slave-produced raw cotton continued to feed the 4,500 mills of Lancashire. Thats why we get it. Mans a loon. But that is not the argument I am making. So how much have considered paedophilia? Reckon they found commenters guessing which parts of a hypothetical argument were meant all part of the fun, In many respects youre one of the posters here whose views on morality Im closest to our personal moralities probably being quite far apart, but I recognise mine as very much the product of my upbringing and surrounding society and know enough about other places and times to realise just how contingent that makes them. In fact he is a biased political campaigner working to attack and do as much damage to Britain as he can. This history of the black presence in . Thats why when the question is raised, I always point out that they owe me lots and lots of money. In the system that made Sloane wealthy, black women sought out herbs, plant species that he carefully identified and categorised, and used them to induce abortions, determined as many were not to bring into the world children who would be born items of property and destined to live short, brutalised lives. Definitely didnt die out with the Romans. Within the EU the two most common ages of consent are 14 and 15 (if Ive done my counting correctly), though in some but not all cases thats with additional restrictions on permissible age gaps. It was, I believe, the first book I ever bought for myself with my own money. Everyone was. Grew up in Quedlinburg. Cest de la trs bonne dialectique conomique. Now sixteen sounds about okay to me if youre going to stick a limit somewhere, but then being British I suppose Im more likely to think the system Im accustomed to is normal and reasonable. If their ancestors had remained in Africa would they be better off than they are now? Theres an argument about judging people by the standard of their times, though even in the 1500s moral and religious objections to the slave trade had been made and the rationale of crimes against humanity is that some things are so abhorrent they could never truly be legal no matter what moral code the perpetrators justified themselves with. Heroes of 2020 What Marcus Rashford's campaign for hungry children tells us about . Probably few other societies had as much chance of buying freedom. many African tribes kept slaves. ), Who is fundamentally right about reparations for slavery? True that unlike certain other examples of slavery, you werent likely to be killed as part of a religious sacrifice or as part of your owners funeral. "They look to history not just for inspiration and comfort, not just for heroes and for glorious chapters; they look for history expecting to find challenging stories, painful stories, dark truths, villains as well as heroes. Presumably there were normal times when food was cheap that you fed your workers and didnt seek to replace them in the way Olusoga means. Two men managed to escape and were rescued, but not before my great, great, grandfather was beaten, starved and worked to death, his body thrown into the jungle for the animals and insects to dispose of. The strongest case I can see against reparations is not fundamentally a legal one but perhaps one degree abstracted the law if we can litigate that, we can litigate a heck of a lot of stuff from centuries past, tie our legal systems up in knots with no obvious limits in sight. But those were in those long-lost days when democrats and republicans could talk to each other and agree to disagree while both leaving the conversation a little the wiser.. MyBurningEars August 30, 2020 at 3:31 pm Deliberately shipping that many people that far in order to participate in a newly-created society whose economic system was designed, pretty much from the ground up, around slave labour?, True that unlike certain other examples of slavery, you werent likely to be killed as part of a religious sacrifice or as part of your owners funeral., But there have been other societies with slavery where slaves had more autonomy and a greater chance of buying their freedom.. It can be withdrawn. The Benin Dialogue Group announced it had brokered an agreement that will see "some of the most iconic" of the bronzes returned to Benin City, Nigeria, where they will be housed in the soon-to-be-built Benin Royal Museum. Now Im trying to imagine just what the strongest case for reparations might be, but even in this thought experiment its hard to see what the eligibility criteria for receiving payment should be, what sum should be due, how much proof is required of eligibility not everyone will have a good set of family records etc. Wider imperialism reparations that include South Asia, China for the Opium Wars and so on, surely even more prohibitively costly, regardless of how effective the education system gets at making young Brits feel a vague sense of guilt about it all. I know. In America few were castrated, which is why there are now >40 million descendants there. After decades of complaints, the Royal African Company lost its monopoly in 1712 and, Olusoga writes, Independent traders were turned loose upon the shores of Africa. These traders had argued (stone-blind to irony) that the right to enslave Africans was a defining feature of English freedom and that the Royal African Company had breached their status as free-born Englishmen. History is just one awful thing after another. BurningEars August 30, 2020 at 3:07 pm Theres a flaw in arguments of the form frankly you should be glad I murdered your sister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestmannaeyjar, Slavery in England definitely continued for a couple of generations after the Norman Conquest and Bristol was a major export centre, though there were attempts to ban the export trade in particular (https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds has some interesting quotes from the time). I imagine few do. Should black history be taught all year round? Ive always agreed that the Africans should pay reparations to the rest of us for dumping all those people they wanted to get rid of on us. One issue about Westerners buying slaves via a chain of commerce that often ultimately involved Africans selling other Africans at traditional slave-trading locations (there was some slave-raiding by Europeans directly, but rarer) is that the extra demand distorted the market, led directly to more armed slave-raiding expeditions against rival tribes and so on. This is indeed tu quoque. You know, entirely ignoring lifetime effects? Like the Nigerian slavers who enslaved and sold the slaves, you mean? You may concede a point here, a point there. Instead he has become a campaigner working to discredit Britain, the country that has educated him, promoted him and brought him fame and acceptance. Blacks like Mr Olusoga despite endlessly banging on about it seem to overlook the fact that they are in a minority. Prof Olusoga says statues, such as those of slave traders . . They did not care much for adult males. Peter Pan & Wendy is a live-action reimagining of the J.M . Do I feel like I had anything to do it? In 1861, the Economist stated that nearly four million people in Britain depended directly and indirectly on the cotton industry; a fifth of the entire population. Because it isnt about who you are, its about who your ancestors were. Those who grew rich on slavery and the slave trade were not neutral and no achievement or act of philanthropy justifies airbrushing their involvement from history. The historian and producer said he wanted to. They also ran a slave trade to the Ottoman empire and white slavery in the north without any help from Europeans. His exposure to Nigerian culture seems quite limited. "I first read it as a student and it struck me as something that was very different to other things I was reading about the Atlantic slave trade. There is no reason to think one system was more or less brutal than the other. Nor do I think that sugar is worse than cotton. Both of these need proof. You lost those two. Forbes magazine's extraordinarily arrogant contributor Tim Worstall Jeremy Corbyn. 2023 BBC. Olusoga is making an appeal to white guilt. TV presenter David Olusoga has told the Edinburgh TV Festival his career had sometimes left him feeling "crushed, isolated," and "disempowered". White people will take it. Then a young teenager, he was driven out of his council home, together with his grandmother, mother, two sisters and younger brother, by a sustained campaign of nightly stoning of their windows. Prof Olusoga, the presenter of the A House Through Time TV series, calls it an act of "historical salvage" to bring to the fore the black British figures who had been "lost in the archives, completely forgotten". You might have heard of a Romano-British chap called Patrick, got enslaved and nabbed to Ireland? Your email address will not be published. The details of difference are fairly minor. Writing in english is cultural appropriation so STFU. This is nothing to do with slavery or as with black lives matter, blacks being shot, and everything to do with a shakedown of the white man. Rather that certain western states, still in existence therefore potentially still liable, regulated and indeed encouraged the development of both the transatlantic slave trade and the slave-labour economic systems of the colonies, at scales that were unusual in the long and varied history of slavery, and levels of brutality that stood out too. Then dont discuss it. In that moment, his interest in history overlapped. I was doing some genealogy research when I discovered my great grandfather was a well known member of the 18th Kentucky Infantry. Theres no point pretending Europeans who profited from either the transatlantic slave trade or the use of slave labour in the Americas were somehow doing a favour to the slaves involved. BZZZTT!! Pretty sure if you could, implausibly, trace my family tree through various not-very-literate eras youd pass through at least one Anglo-Saxon who owned a bunch of Britons. Hes welcome to pursue his line of thought but he should bear in mind that tolerance is, by its nature, in the gift of the powerful. That is a strawman argument at its best. We pretend we do not like slavery but actually we do not like slave traders. The enslaved Africans had to wait another five years for their freedom and were not given a penny. But its still awful, even on a historical scale.. Away from the creative arts, the Equiano Project aims to promote race equality and he was mentioned in Parliament during a debate on Black History and Cultural Diversity in the Curriculum. I had a girlfriend whose mother was a Nazi. Arguably wrong in a crimes against humanity way (similar language of natural justice and universal morality indeed being used by the abolitionists and the UK itself when it tried to enforce a ban on the trade) that made it inherently illegal even when governments tried to put it on a legal footing. She wasnt interested in my academic pursuit. The novel became the bestselling book of 19th-century Britain; it was adapted for the theatre and generated mass-produced merchandise playing cards, jigsaws, tableware. Yet theyre so many centuries and generations removed from the crime, everybody involved with the decision-making is long-dead and while the responsible state still exists, in practice compensation comes from taxes paid by citizens who had no part in it all. And tolerance is not a given. The Celtic version of slavery (which ran to quite a different model) was still going on in the places the Romans didnt reach. But you need a different approach if you dont think great-grandkids of the Confederacy are still fair game.) Or anything to do with slavery. People seem pretty much agreed on what is right and what is wrong. But werent they lucky compared to the other Germans in Stalingrad? But any planter who deliberately starved his slaves to death would quickly go bust. Olusoga has written stand-alone history books as well as those accompanying his television series. Pretty much everybody in the West is against slavery. Video, 00:02:30. But maybe they did not. Back in the heyday of blogging, perhaps ten years ago or so, there was a blogger calling him/herself The Heresiarch who enjoyed running against received opinions. Cotton was a completely different slave economy. Inflaming the reader has no purpose relative to slavery. But as someone who is damaged by slavery I have lived in racially mixed communities and I am happy to see Obama and Kamala pay up. It costs money to replace them and after a famine the price of slaves would rise. Its an interesting exercise to consider, given we live within such a system, how or whether that contradiction can be settled. When Olusoga recalled the experience before television cameras last year, he wept. It isnt going to happen anyway. That star stuff wont last. Indeed in many cases, whose ancestors didnt even live in France or England at the relevant time. But it is also likely that disease played a role. It was far too real to her. He was born in Nigeria but arrived in the . There is no reason to single White people out for unique levels of criticism. Shouldnt matter whether some long-dead relative fought long ago for or against (not at all to disparage your ancestors GC, who all sound very sound) in terms of whether somethings your fault. "I have," he admits, "a habit of . Flyover Americans arent going to take it. So there were times when food was expensive, we can call those shortages or famines. Just as how in the 16th century the anti-slavery voices in Europe were overwhelmed, and in the 19th century the abolitionists won out. It is a political campaign, not a contribution to academic history. Indeed, third-century York may have been more ethnically and racially diverse than present-day York. Long after he had published Corydon, his defence of pederasty. If more African-Americans started to vote Republican and the Democrats felt they needed something radical to boost their offer, and had enough support from liberal whites and other groups to risk further losses among blue-collar whites, for example. It's possibly a deeper change than some people realise because I don't think what we're living through is a series of political events; I think we're living through a generational shift," he says. MBE: The problem with the UK paying reparations is that people like Olusoga would have to pay their share of the greatly increased taxes. The argument isnt whether historical slavery was right or wrong or who should accept responsibility for it. That was a bad experience but he should know that you cannot judge a whole country by what happened when he was young. Required fields are marked *. Id agree that attitudes in the UK are approaching that situation, but theres still a long, long way to go yet. We could just cut to the chase, and impose a reparations tax on anyone who is descended from from anyone who did something, er, wrong. You dont have esoteric discussions with paedophiles any more than you would with serial killers. Pope Nicholas V gave his blessing, so long as the Vatican benefited. Nevertheless, we live in a society that generally regards slavery as an absolute and eternal wrong, and a grave one at that, yet which has historically (at least certain people and places, and including the state itself) benefited from imposing slavery on others.. Sign up to receive information regarding NS events, subscription offers & product updates. This is because forgetting slavery means forgetting its victims. Might, in this case, being 100% of the debating point. My first reaction, years and years ago, was thats awful. Vikings took slaves, including exporting Anglo-Saxons (you must have heard the quote Non Angli, sed Angeli about the English slaves being sold in Italy? We do not know how great the demand for women was. . not at all to disparage your ancestors GC. 5 quotes from David Olusoga: 'On a peninsula protruding into one of the great highways of the Atlantic slave trade, a few hundred refugees from British slavery in North America were attempting to recreate the social structures of Northern Europe in the Middle Ages.', 'Time and again events and phenomena that we think we know and understand contain within them lost or camouflaged connections to . He has discovered new and exciting research materials in African archives, among them the Register of Liberated Africans in Sierra Leone, which list names, bodily details, ethnicity and origins, thus putting a human face on people otherwise treated as fodder and statistics. Which of those societies does Olusogas ancestry come from? Africans had a demand for female slaves. Olusoga brilliantly reveals such contradictions in British society. Some other buyer would have taken them if they werent shipped out, and Western (or Arab) traders were just changing the ownership and location, the sins of the slave-raiders being theirs alone to bear. And yet Africans and West Indians were banned from the victory parade in 1919. For almost 60 years, there was impasse. There is plenty of slavery about we just do not call it that. (I suppose it makes a point about blame not being distributed homogeneously, or that a certain group of people shouldnt be guilted just because they share the same colour of skin with another bunch of people you do think are guilty. The masses who once supported black freedom now campaigned for the Deep South. The race obsessed Department of Education goes to considerable lengths to distinguish Caribbeans and West Africans. I assume he is not very bright and Race Hustling is very lucrative. In 1787, they met in London and set up the Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade. Societies have what morals suit them. But morals are very transient things. Id say the same to the Black Lives Matter people. If Olusoga is looking for apologies or compensation for slavery, I am quite prepared to meet him, accept his apology, togehr with cash, cheque or even a postal order. Olusoga unloads all sorts of characterizations. Britain should be proud of helping to stop (African to America) slavery, like the Republican Party and unlike the Democrats. Was never entirely sure which bits were believed and which bits were just a fun bit of intellectual muscle-flexing couldnt all have been intended seriously since so many posts contradicted each other. Abolition was the first mass philanthropic movement in Britain, and it ended the slave trade in 1807. And the fact youre moved to tears by discovering for the first time a great-great-great-grandmother of yours was a prostitute single-mum with seven kids or a great-x5-uncle you had never heard of was imprisoned for murder, well, your utter lack of knowledge simply reveals how little youve been influenced by them, so youre hardly discovering a new facet of yourself at all. They included Josiah Wedgwood (the pottery entrepreneur), Granville Sharp and Thomas Clarkson. The system he witnessed and wrote about was one in which human beings were worked to death. Not sure theyd do that with modern sensibilities mind you. The arguments do you want to get shaken down for several trillion?. Would probably have taken your suggestion as a challenge. Shipwrecked off the coast of Africa, he, and other survivors, were taken by an African tribe as captives. Then the second. Im not even saying thats a convincing argument, it has some very serious weak points, just that I reckon its a stronger one than a general appeal about current inequality. Women, denied a meaningful role in politics, formed their own organisations, writing tracts, pamphlets and poems, gathering signatures for petitions and fundraising: At certain times and in certain places they were the engine room of the movement.. The following decades were taken up with popular and political rhetoric about immigration and parliamentary acts to limit blacks coming to Britain. He is a Cultural Marxist trying to destroy the West. The good news is that Black Lives Matter may be that trigger. What is their strongest argument? So 10.416 were sold by the Africans every month for one hundred years, There will be no peace on this issue until black people acknowledge their own responsibility for the trade. That contradiction can be settled within such a system, how or whether that contradiction can be,. 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